{"id":187,"date":"2017-12-28T20:18:54","date_gmt":"2017-12-28T20:18:54","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/wordof.jim-butcher.com\/?page_id=187"},"modified":"2022-02-08T17:36:47","modified_gmt":"2022-02-08T17:36:47","slug":"woj-on-angels-demons-fallen-and-knights-of-the-cross","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"\/index.php\/word-of-jim-woj-compilation\/woj-on-angels-demons-fallen-and-knights-of-the-cross\/","title":{"rendered":"WoJ on Angels, Demons (Fallen), and Knights of the Cross"},"content":{"rendered":"

Link back to the main Dresden Files WoJ compilation<\/a><\/p>\n

Knights of the Cross<\/span><\/strong><\/span>\u00a0(and the swords)<\/h1>\n
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Quote from: Mickey Finn on August 12, 2006, 11:36:22 AM<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

It’s mentioned that the Swords of the Cross have a nail from the Crucifixtion worked into them…are they visible (as in, part of the guard or blade), or are they hidden or reforged into the metal? Also, the katana has the symbol for faith engraved on the blade…do the other two have their respective namesakes engraved on them somehow? What are they? (As in, is it a symbol or word in the blade of the broadsword and calvary sabre?)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The nails are visible–Harry does his best to convince himself that it’s rust, not blood, on the nail in the hilt of Michael’s sword in Grave Peril.\u00a0 They are worked in to the metal of the blade, at the base, just above the guard, point toward the end of the blade.<\/p>\n

The other two swords bear one kind of marking or another, but Shiro’s was very specific to him, as he had to seek out a new sword when he inherited the old Fidelacchius.\u00a0 His was custom work, essentially.\u00a0 Sanya’s sword actually has an Egyptian heiroglyph for the sun on the pommel, and he could use it as a letter-seal if he was of a mind to do it.\u00a0 The Egyptian, who had the sword before Sanya, often did.\u00a0 Sanya isn’t really the wax-seal-letter-writing kind.\u00a0\":)\"<\/p>\n

Amoracchius, though, is completely unadorned, pure function.\u00a0 Though it’s possible that there may have been designs on the crossguard or hilt that have worn away over time.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n

\n

2009 Lexington signing<\/a>:
\nQ:\u00a0 Will Thomas get one of the Swords of the Cross?<\/strong>
\nA:\u00a0 [sing-song voice] I\u2019m not gonna tell you! [\/sing-song voice]
\n2010 Bitten by Books Q&A<\/a>:
\n#263 \u201cWith the light-hearted joke where the characters were cast as Lord of the Rings roles who would you put as Gimli?\u201d<\/strong>
\nSanya.\u00a0\":)\"
\n#387 \u201cYou mentioned that all of the Knights of the Cross were of royal heritage. Why is this? Does being royal make you more qualified to be one of the Knights?\u201d<\/strong>
\nIt doesn\u2019t make you qualified, so much as it makes you \/responsible\/. It\u2019s a small but important distinction.
\nI\u2019ve seen a well-done argument that defined goodness, in the Dresden stories, as power balanced by responsibility\u2013and evil as power without accompanying responsibility to restrain and control it. I liked it.
\nReally cool story about a guy that JB used as inspiration for Shiro<\/a>\u00a0@5:10
\n2011 Naperville Signing<\/a>
\nDo you have anyone in mind or assigned yet for who bears the Swords?<\/strong>
\nSeveral people actually, I haven\u2019t decided who they\u2019re going to fall out to. I\u2019ve got several really cool candidates that would just be a whole lot of fun, but it\u2019s like, \u201cBut I don\u2019t want to do it to you guys, you\u2019re nice! Give you one of these Swords and I\u2019m going to have to be mean to you.\u201d That\u2019s kind of the way it works out.
\n2011 Bitten by Books Q&A<\/a>
\nHow can Kusanagi be a Sword of the Cross when it predates the crucifixion?<\/strong>
\nBecause the Swords are ideas and symbols as much as they are physical objects\u2013maybe even more so. Kusanagi isn\u2019t the original Kusanagi, Exaclibur isn\u2019t the original Excalibur, etc. But their title, their \/idea\/ has been passed down from one generation to the next, much as the names of warships are passed down to the next generation of ships, with the new ship inheriting the titles, victories, and traditions of its forbears. The nails are passed on from one sword to the next, bringing bits of the metal of each sword that came before.
\nJim’s twitter feed on July 12th 2015<\/strong><\/span>
\n@longshotauthor What were the Knights of the Cross doing during the Crusades?<\/strong>
\n@therealcarew Trying to bring them to an end
\n@longshotauthor As unaffiliated but superpowered mediators, like the Jedi?\u00a0 Or was there supernatural ass that needed kicking?<\/strong>
\nWell, Saladin was one for a while…<\/p>\n

Michael<\/strong><\/span><\/span>\u00a0(and his home)<\/h1>\n
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Quote from: neurovore on March 02, 2009, 02:39:26 PM<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
\n
Micahel (sic) is still physically up to fighting the good fight in sufficient of an emergency.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
\u00a0Um.\u00a0 No he isn’t.\u00a0\":)\"<\/p>\n

Michael went ten seconds against one guy who \/didn’t\/ know how to fight with a sword after that guy had run down multiple flights of stairs and sprinted across several city blocks.\u00a0 That is a far cry from going up against a vampire or a Denarian \/without one of the Swords\/.\u00a0 I mean, he needs a cane to walk because he \/needs\/ it.<\/p>\n

You blow out a knee bad enough and you don’t play in the NFL no more.\u00a0\":)\"\u00a0 Maybe you can play touch football at the park with friends, but that’s a long way from getting another superbowl ring.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n

\n

Q:\u00a0 Why did you shoot Michael?<\/strong>
\nA:\u00a0 Read The Warrior. Getting shot is Michael’s happy ending.
\nQ:\u00a0 Was Michael based on anyone?<\/strong>
\nA:\u00a0 Michael was a Paladin that Jim wanted to do right, a man who lives his life according to the bible.\u00a0 Nicodemus is Michael\u2019s opposite, trying to live his life exactly opposite of what the bible says to do.
\n2009 Bitten by Books Q&A<\/a>:
\n#69 \u201cI also just finished Mean Street and am wondering if you have a story arc that will provide Harry a little more peace of mind with respect to Michael?\u201d<\/strong>
\nI\u2019m really not terribly interested in Harry\u2019s peace of mind.\u00a0\":)\"\u00a0I kind of make my living torturing the guy. Oh sure, maybe eventually, but\u2026
\n…Michael has a LOT of things Harry wants, at one level or another. I think Harry\u2019s state of mind with regards to Michael is as peaceful as it can be, so long as Harry still lacks those things\u2013peace, quiet, family\u2013for himself.
\n2011 NYC Signing Q&A<\/a>
\nWhat, if anything, could threaten the Carpenter household right now?<\/strong>
\nNuthin\u2019 much. Yeah, Michael\u2019s got a dozen angels on constant security detail. He\u2019s fine. There\u2019s one that goes with each kid when they go to school. It\u2019s ridiculous around there. And they\u2019ve also got, you know, Mouse, there to keep track of things.\u00a0 Plus they\u2019ve got like the biggest threshold in the entire WORLD for that kind of thing.
\n2011 Bitten by Books Q&A<\/a>
\nHarry entered Michael Carpenter\u2019s house at the end of Ghost Story without an invitation. Was this because he was running around naked in his soul or because he previously had had invitations into the home? We note that Harry couldn\u2019t enter other homes earlier in the book but was that because he truly believed he was a ghost and knowing that a ghost can\u2019t cross a threshold his belief stopped him cold? (Extrapolating from the Leanansidhe\u2019s information that the only limits on Harry at this point are the ones he places on himself)<\/strong>
\nThe presence of an Archangel, essentially an executive VP of Creation, probably had something to do with it.
\nBooktalk Nation Interview 5-15-14<\/a>
\nHow did Michael know about Elaine in Grave Peril?<\/strong>
\nAt that point Michael and Harry had had enough bonding time for Harry to share some things with Michael that he hadn\u2019t shared with anybody else.\u00a0 He\u2019d actually known Michael for about a year by the time Grave Peril got started.
\nHow did Harry and Michael Carpenter originally meet?<\/strong>
\nIt was on a case that Harry was working that he crossed trails with Michael.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to say much more than that in case I want to go back and write it at some point, but it\u2019s in my notes back there somewhere.\u00a0 They wound up fighting the same bad guy.<\/p>\n

Angelic Types<\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/h1>\n

2010 Bitten by Books Q&A<\/a>:
\n#180 \u201cCould Uriel have chosen to help Harry if he had wanted to, or is there actually some universal limit that prevents him from directly influencing the world in such overt fashion?\u201d<\/strong>
\nA little of both. Technically, it was \/possible\/ for Uriel to act directly, but the consequences would have been extreme, both for him and for the mortal world\u2013to the point where you\u2019d have to be moderately insane to do it. Or else, really, really committed to some kind of personal moral compass that was 90 degrees off true.
\nThe last angel to do that is a little notorious.
\n#259 \u201cDoes the same apply to hellfire\/soulfire. What would happen if Harry were to take up Lasciel\u2019s coin and then try to use soulfire and hellfire together? Would that result in Harry dying horribly?\u201d<\/strong>
\nThose are different. They\u2019re really two sides of the same coin\u2013but they can\u2019t really exist together like that. They aren\u2019t explosively reactive, but they aren\u2019t additive, either. Which one came into the person to be used would depend on the person who was using it, and what they were using it for.
\nAngelic types have access to both. Which one they use is partially what determines what \/kind\/ of angels they are.<\/em>\u00a0(Emphasis added)
\n2012 Reddit AMA:<\/a>
\nzebrake2010:<\/strong>\u00a0When the skinwalker asked Harry who gifted him the life fire, Harry responded, “Doubt you know him. He’ve taken you out.”[1] Were you foreshadowing that we will get to see Uriel[2] in actual combat at some point? (And if you weren’t foreshadowing, well, will we get to see Uriel in combat anyway?[3] )
\nJim: 1)<\/strong>\u00a0A being like Uriel doesn’t really do battle in the sense of contested violence. He just sort of thinks about annihilating galaxies and it happens. His battles are much more complicated than that, and involve things like choosing seven words very carefully, and handing off a few sparks of energy to the right person in the right place at the right time.
\n@longshotauthor In the Dresden Files, are the fallen 4.6 billion years old or approx 4000? Big bang vs God making everything really.<\/strong>
\n@GiftedMonster How do you know that before the Big Bang, God didn’t say “Let there be light.”\u00a0\":)\"\u00a0It’s fantasy fiction, Ashely, not theology\u00a0\u00a0<\/a>
\n@GiftedMonster Though for the record, the Dresden universe angels have been around since before time was a Thing. #TemporalHipsters<\/a><\/p>\n

Denarians and fallen<\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/h1>\n
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Quote from: Bob on November 30, 2006, 09:31:59 PM<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

It seems to me that as long as the Church has some of the coins, those paerticular Denarians are neutralized.\u00a0 Doing a Mt Doom with the coins might free up the spirits housed within to act freely in the world.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Well.\u00a0 Not quite freely, but MORE freely, certainly.\u00a0 The Fallen bound in the coins are the freaking elite of Hell–everyone the big D didn’t want trying to stab him in the back, basically.\u00a0 If they were suddenly freed it would do all kinds of horrible things to about a million balances of power, with repercussions that would last for centuries.<\/p>\n

Which assumes that they \/can\/ be destroyed.\u00a0 I mean, don’t think that in 2,000 years, no one has ever TRIED it.\u00a0 And there are still thirty of them kicking around.<\/p>\n

Which isn’t necessarily to say that it’s impossible.\u00a0 But it sure as Hell wouldn’t be easy.\u00a0 And given that, while in the coins, they ARE effectively frozen in carbonite without a human agent to assist them, containment certainly seems to be a prudent course.<\/p>\n

Funny you should mention that whole notion about redeeming Lasciel . . . >\":)\"<\/p>\n

Jim<\/p><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Editor’s note:\u00a0 The forum member Bob above is the same person <\/em>Turn Coat is dedicated to.<\/em> -Serack<\/div>\n
\n

Regarding Nicodemus:\u00a0<\/strong><\/a>
\nAt the Independence dinner, Jim confirmed that Nicodemus is NOT dead.\u00a0 I believe he made mention that Nicky is, in fact, quite and thoroughly frightened of Harry at this point.
\n2009 Lexington signing<\/a>:
\nQ:\u00a0 Jim\u2019s favorite recurring villain?<\/strong>
\nA:\u00a0 Marcone, when he\u2019s being a villain.\u00a0 And Nicodemus, because he is pure evil.
\nQ:\u00a0 Why did the Denarians in Small Favor seem less powerful than in Death Masks?<\/strong>
\nA:\u00a0 If a Fallen has essentially overpowered their human host, then they have limited free will (they can\u2019t use the free will of the human); a Denarian is much more powerful if they use the human as a partner.
\nQ:\u00a0 Difference between the Fallen and other creatures from Hell?<\/strong>
\nA:\u00a0 Fallen are like corporate \u2013 they\u2019ve got the backing of an organization.
\n2010 Bitten by Books Q&A<\/a>:
\n#252 \u201cI\u2019ve occasionally tried to have this question pop up over the years, and Small Favor answered some of it, but not all \u2014 do you have (and are you willing to share) the names of all 30 of the Denarians worked out?\u201d<\/strong>
\nYeah, I\u2019ve got them written down in a notebook somewhere. I go pull it out whenever I\u2019m doing Denarian plots.\u00a0\":)\"\u00a0I\u2019ll only share them as they become relevant to the story.
\n2010 Dragon-Con<\/a>\u00a0@3:50
\nDoes Nicodemus have any alternate forms other than his shadow?<\/strong>
\nNo, he just has his shadow do things for him.\u00a0 You go relying on an alternate form to get things done, that still puts you in personal danger and Nicodemus is more practical than that.\u00a0 He’d rather stand over here and let something else kill and get the work done.\u00a0 Unless it’s something cool like a Knight of the Cross, in that case he’s still got something to prove.
\n2011 Bitten by Books Q&A<\/a>
\nWhere are the coins kept? Does Father Forthill keep them at St. Mary\u2019s or are they sent to the Vatican?<\/strong>
\nNeither.\u00a0\u00a0\":)\"
\nWhat\u2019s the range of influence for the Fallen in the coins? How far can they extend themselves away from their Denarian hosts?<\/strong>
\nOh, their range is very, very limited, to this one little planet.\u00a0\":D\"
\n2011 DC signing<\/a>
\nAre we going to see more of Nicodemus or Mavra?<\/strong>
\nNicodemus will show up on schedule, which you can figure out if you stop to look at things, I think. Mavra’s not done yet either, but she eventually probably will be, and I’ll leave it at that.
\n2014 AMA<\/a>
\nWould the Denarius coins be Tiberius Caesar Denariuses? Being that Tiberius was in power when jesus was crucified and the Denarius coins are said to be the 30 pieces of silver Judas received. I just want to know because I want to make a necklace of a blackened denarius and having the correct authentic coin would be awesome..<\/strong>
\nWell, Tiberius had only been emperor for fifteen years, give or take a few, when Christ was crucified. Coins of that period stayed in circulation for a pretty hefty time period, and would travel out from Rome in ripples when new coins were minted. Palestine was a pretty good distance from the heart of the Empire. They were probably a mix of newer Tiberian and older Augustan coins, unless you hypothesize some kind of Romanocentric conspiracy for killing off Jesus, that might well be funded with all newer coins.\u00a0\":)\"
\n2015 AMA<\/a>
\nIs Nic older than Mab?<\/strong>
\nHe is.<\/p>\n

\n
Quote from:\u00a0Uncorroborated WoJ off Reddit<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

I got to see Jim yesterday during his visit to Sweden.<\/p>\n

As he was quickly signing books, I figured I wouldn’t be able to get a long answer out of him, so I shot for a yes no question – “Does Satan rule hell like Hades rules his place?” was what I tried to ask, but as soon as I said “Does Satan rule hell-” he frowned and said no. But then he heard the rest of my question and elaborated. I think I remember his answer verbatim: “Hades is like the CEO of his own small company, sort of. Satan is more like an officer of a sprawling multinational conglomerate – the hierarchy of hell operates exactly like a corporation, obviously” By ‘an officer’, I assume he meant CEO, what with being a fallen archangel and all, but the word he used was officer.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

<\/div>\n

Lash\/Lasciel<\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/h1>\n

2007 Huntington Beach B&N Q&A<\/a>\u00a0@42:45
\nWhat roll will Lasciel play in future books?<\/strong>
\nThat’s going to be another one of those where I go “Hahaha, I know and you don’t” because, you know, it’s the whole, I want to provide for my family thing.\u00a0 Were’re not done with Lasciel.\u00a0 We might not even be totally done with Lash, but we will have to see how that goes.
\n2009 Chicago signing<\/a>:
\nQ:\u00a0 Will we see Lash or Lasciel again?<\/strong>
\nA:\u00a0 Lasciel\u2019s story is not over.\u00a0 And keep in mind what\u2019s said about \u2018a woman scorned.\u2019\u00a0 Also keep in mind that Lasciel is NOT Lash; Lasciel did not reabsorb the entity that Harry actually changed. (Yes, he use those words \u201cthat Harry actually changed.\u201d)
\n2009 Independence signing<\/a>
\nQ:\u00a0 Was the voice in Harry\u2019s head at the end of White Night (when he was playing guitar) a sign that Lash is still there?\u00a0<\/strong>
\nA:\u00a0 Not really.\u00a0 But Lash\u2019s story isn\u2019t done.
\n2008 Comic-Con Q&A<\/a>: @ about 6:11
\nQ:\u00a0 Does Lasciel’s shadow get to heaven because she redeemed herself?<\/strong>
\nA:\u00a0 The answer to that is so much more complicated than is easy to give, especially without giving out extra story and ruining the fun.\u00a0 No.\u00a0 Lasciel’s spirit didn’t go to heaven.\u00a0 And now, (sing song) I’m not gona tell you. *mutters about heroin for writers*\u00a0 But it will come out, don’t worry the story will be there.
\n2008 Comic-Con Q&A pt.2<\/a>\u00a0@7:24
\nGoing back to\u00a0Dead Beat<\/em>\u00a0and Lasciel’s shadow, I’m having a debate with the fan who got me into the series is insisting that Dresden accepting help from Lasciel’s shadow is completely against character, and will not accept the argument “but he was going to die.”\u00a0 Do you have anything else to help justify that change of heart in accepting help from the demon?<\/strong>
\nOh, Harry delving into dark dark gray areas in order to get the job done?\u00a0 *smirk* No, I don’t think there’s any basis for that whatsoever.\u00a0 Although you could argue at the time that Lasciel wasn’t necessarily the demon that she was when she got there.\u00a0 Although Dresden didn’t know that so it’s not really a very good argument.\u00a0 But really, that’s a lot of what the series is about, is finding out what is and what he isn’t really willing to do for whatever the stakes might be.
\nAnd it wasn’t like he picked up the coin and turned into dark superman or anything.\u00a0 He just kinda accepted a\u00a0little<\/em>\u00a0help.\u00a0 The problem was that was the whole issue, the demon was a tempter demon who could say “here here’s a little help.\u00a0 Oh would you like a little more, here’s a little more I’m happy to do that for youuu.”\u00a0 It was that kind of situation where it just couldn’t have gone anywhere good.\u00a0 And Harry knew that too.\u00a0 The other justification is that, I don’t know if you noticed but Harry isn’t quite perfect.
\nAmazon.com review response<\/a>
\nOpen plots from past books remained gaping while brand new ones left me thinking, “Wait, what?” more than once. Harry can still call Lasciel’s coin to him whenever he wants? Really? Because….?<\/strong>
\nSome plots are still open because, you know. The story isn’t done yet. And Harry knows it’s possible for the coin to be summoned because Lash told him it was doable. As far as him being able to summon the coin, well. He kinda lied to Mab. It’ll be clearer why he did, eventually.
\n2011 Bitten by Books Q&A<\/a>
\nWhat twist has the series taken that even surprised you? I am constantly surprised by the twists and turns.<\/strong>
\nThe whole Lasciel\u2019s coin plot was something I instigated on the spur of the moment back in book 5, and which isn\u2019t over yet. Lots of things happen that aren\u2019t specifically spelled out, but which can be woven into the overstory plot that I\u2019ve been pursuing. I expect new stuff will continue seeping out of my subconscious and prove to fit pretty smoothly into the outline.
\n2011 Boston Signing<\/a>
\nIs Lasciel going to make a comeback? The coin is still buried in the lab, right?<\/strong>
\nHer coin isn\u2019t in the lab anymore. Her story is not yet over. However, both Lasciel and Lash appeared in Ghost Story, but not under those names.<\/p>\n

See the Free Will section in the miscellaneous WoJ compilation page for more on Lash<\/a><\/p>\n

Jacqueline Lichtenberg<\/strong><\/a>\u00a0seems to have discussed Lash with JB in a 2007 interview (right after WN), but did not give direct quotes.\u00a0 Very good info here though<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Link back to the main Dresden Files WoJ compilation<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Link back to the main Dresden Files WoJ compilation Knights of the Cross\u00a0(and the swords) Quote from: Mickey Finn on … More WoJ on Angels, Demons (Fallen), and Knights of the Cross<\/span> →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":144,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-187","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/187","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=187"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/187\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":221,"href":"\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/187\/revisions\/221"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/144"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=187"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}